He brought his wife with him this time. She remembered me, but we didn't know each other well back then, so it didn't affect the discussion. Before we even sat down, he pulled out the book of Revelation. He turns to the section about the tree of life and reads it to me.
I smiled and said, "You're trying to answer my question before I even asked it?"
He laughed and decided that maybe that would be a good idea. So I had a few notes scribbled down on a piece of paper, and pulling that out, I read it to them.
The tree of knowledge and the tree of life were both placed in the garden of eden. (Gen 2:9)
Humans eat from the tree of knowledge, giving them the ability to know good from bad.
God removed them from the garden before they could eat from the tree of life, and gain the ability to live forever. (Gen. 3:22)
Questions
1. If they didn't aquire the ability to live forever yet, that means they were going to die already. So how can it be said that "sin" is what caused death? (Rom. 5:12)
2. If they were going to die already, how does this affect the role played by Jesus?
3. If they were created perfect, why didn't God include those abilities that would be gained by eating from the two trees?
I paused after reading that, and handed the paper over to him. He said we should break the equation down, starting with the tree of knowledge. He explained in full detail, using various scriptures, how God has the right to decide who lives forever, it isn't up to us. But we can attain everlasting life by doing God's will.
"Um......ok. But that doesn't really address my question."
"Well, hypothetically, even had they eaten from the tree of life, God would have removed that ability, so it really doesn't matter. What matters is that we can gain that back, thanks to Jesus' sacrifice."
"Ok, let's go back and read that verse again. Gen 3:22--"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
"According to the bible, they did not get the chance to eat from the tree of life. That eliminates any hypothetical situations. So now, we are back to square one."
"Ok, ok. Well there are only two individuals that are immortal. Jehovah, and Jesus."
"You realize that Jesus died, right?"
"Well yeah, but he was resurrected, and gained his immortality. Anyways, my point is that the bible shows that even those granted everlasting life can still be killed."
He then reads Isaiah 65:17-20 to me. It reads--“Behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind.
But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
he who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere youth;
he who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
I quickly pointed out to him that people would still be dying (see the bolded part). But he took me to Revelation 21:1-4 and reads the part about there being no more death. I replied, "Well, looks like we have a bible contradiction then. One is saying people will die at a guaranteed old age, and the other verse says death is wiped away." He took a long look at that verse in Isaiah and ended that with the "I'll have to look in to this one deeper" excuse. I mentioned that perhaps we should get back to the point of the discussion.
"Well, the trees didn't really have any magic in them. It was up to the humans to obey God, and they chose to disobey by following Satan. But they always had those abilities within them. God probably did not activate them yet until he knew they would willingly obey Him first."
I laughed.
"Wait, wait, wait a minute. Are you suggesting that the trees were not literal?"
"In a sense, yes. The trees might have been real, but the abilities that you mentioned, were not gained by eating from those trees. God would have granted them everything if they had only obeyed Him."
"Are we reading the same story? I mean, that expanation is a very big stretch. You are now going beyond what the Genesis account clearly states. They didn't realize that they were naked until after eating the fruit, so obviously something changed. God would not have put guards around the tree of life if the tree had nothing to offer. So again, back to the question."
They proceeded to run me through every single verse in the bible about the tree of life. Still, no answer. They said that perhaps God would have allowed them to eat from the tree of life later on, but once they had sinned, they lost that opportunity. I told them that we can't use speculative reasoning here. Maybes only increase the chances of misinterpreting the scriptures. We need to stick to what the story says. They tried a couple of other angles, that maybe we can't answer the question at this time until God clears it up, or at least what we do know is that God has provided a chance to live forever.
I chuckled and shook my head.
"Ok look. If you don't know the answer, just say so. The question is fairly simple. The problem here is that this puts the entire bible story in jeapordy. If humans were going to die, then sin really did not do anything. And because of that, Jesus would not have had to die. His role in the story becomes a moot point, which is really bad since he is the main character. It also brings into question why God would create a product and then need to possibly add things to it later, which shows bad planning by the designer, or He would deny them those abilities, which is just plain cruel. There really isn't a lot to go on here because the basis relies on so few verses. But it needs to be addressed at some point."
He said that he really couldn't answer the question, but he would try, and he would relay my questions to the wt society rep that he has been in contact with. The meeting ended there.
